This is a fifty-three minute interview of the legendary graphic designer by the legendary design historian and writer, conducted for the Dublin design conference OFFSET. Early in the discussion, Glaser offers this surprisingly sweeping criticism of “design”:

The most corrosive thing about the relationship between design and the public has been the idea that design is a manifestation of promotion and advertising — and persuasion. And persuasion turns out to be one of the worst thing you can do as a designer in many ways.

He and Heller spend a good deal of time talking about how that squares with Glaser’s storied career in which he achieved fame and wealth (two societal dynamics that Glaser also finds great fault with) by using design essentially as a tool of persuasion.